DISQUS

chetlyzarko · 1 year ago

Ed, your defense of ACORN and duplicate registration issues sounds an awful lot like the issues surrounding signature gathering and the claims that the Michigan Civil Rights Initiative (MCRI) committed "fraud" based on "massive irregularities" or "too many blacks signing" in Detroit. (Here, I will note for relevance that I was Treasurer and Dir. of Media Relations for MCRI from 2004 to early 2006, although I do speak for myself here and not officially). For some reason, I didn't hear Lagstein rushing to our defense (in fact, there is good evidence that ACORN was involved in arguing fraud on our part).

MCRI had a less than 10% invalidity rate - very low by historical and industry markers - based on the types of issues you cite here. There simply are difficulties in the process that mis-written addresses, movement of residence over time, etc, and it is not uncommon that people would sign just "to take pity on the canvasser" as ACORN's defense points out would explain why a large number of blacks might sign a petition without reading it or agreeing with it.

One person's "rejection rate" based on legitimate issues is another person's spin as fraud.

So in this limited case I sympathize with ACORN and agree that any allegation of fraud must be proven with specficity and in a court of law beyond reasonable doubt. It'd be nice to have some reciprocation in acknowledging that MCRI didn't commit a single "fraud" (which has a very precise definition, actually, in criminal law) despite the constant media repetition of the allegation as if it were a fact, but I've learned not to expect intellectual honesty from many on the left (every now and then though I'm surprised). If the standard is, as you say, "convictions," there have never been even "charges" filed let alone "convictions" against MCRI.

That said, while "voter fraud" is a "red herring," I'd say "voter suppression" is in the same category (and if your final quote is true, where is all the "evidence" he refers to?). Both sides on this issue point to a tiny subset of examples to paint the other side with a broad brush. It's one of the disgusting aspects of our current partisan divide. But I understand it and why both sides make the claims.

ebrayton · 1 year ago

Chetley Zarko wrote:

That said, while "voter fraud" is a "red herring," I'd say "voter suppression" is in the same category (and if your final quote is true, where is all the "evidence" he refers to?).

The evidence is contained in multiple court rulings over the past 27 years (the first was in 1981) against the GOP for voter caging. In 1981, again in 1987 and several times since then, courts have filed injunctions against massive voter caging operations by the RNC and state committees, involving hundreds of thousands of voters in several states. Gerry Hebert, who spent two decades working on voter rights cases for the DOJ (after being hired by Richard Nixon, so he can hardly be accused of partisan bias), is right when he says that virtually all the evidence is on one side here. 15 or 20 canvassers out of several thousand, working on their own and turning in fake applications as a way to make money by shortcutting the system simply cannot be compared to a history of massive voter caging operations run directly by the RNC and the Republican state committees around the country. For crying out loud, have you seen the New Jersey case that resulted in the first consent decree on this? They not only tried to have hundreds of thousands of voters removed from the rolls, they hired off duty cops and security guards to put on fake uniforms and had them flashing badges from the "National Ballot Security Task Force" - which was invented out of thin air by the RNC - and intimidate people at the polls. And it's hardly a coincidence that this was done only at precincts that historically voted Democratic. Or that in every election they only send vote challengers to such districts.

cheneygun · 1 year ago

I knew some ACORN people when I lived in Lansing. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that they routinely engage in voter fraud and that is a fact.

liftupall · 1 year ago

I worked as an organizer for ACORN for several years. The pay was low and the hours long. We worked relentlessly during elections. It took sacrifice and a strong personal commitment. We did it because we believe in democracy. To accuse these fine people and great non-profit of being fraudulent is wrong. ACORN employs thousands of people. Could there be a few bad seeds? Of course. It's just too bad that cheneygun chose to associate with those few bad seeds, rather than getting to know any of the thousands of honest, good people that represent the organization. I assure you, none of the folks I ever worked with would tolerate any kind of fraud.

cheneygun · 1 year ago

A little nutty? The Feds just raided the ACORN office!!
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/07/acorn-v...